Tips to get cheap (pink floyd) live recordings

Hello friends.

A foreword about this site :

This site is only informative. We are in no way trying to force you to act through the actions described below. Some persons feel that, in the world we are living, everybody is free to pay 100usd for a CDr copy on Ebay, and THEY ARE 120% RIGHT.

But, some fans maybe fooled by wrong or biaised description of some items and may need further informations regarding Ebay policy on bootlegs and CDrs.

Be also aware that, there are bad traders, as bad sellers exist. We should not be kept responsible for following the directions for good trading listed below.

Disclaimer (1) : You are a big boy (girl). Follow this information on your own will.

Disclaimer (2) : Bootlegs are illegal in many countries. If you want details on what is a bootleg (and what is not a bootleg) I suggest you to read "The Great White Wonders" (UK edition) or "Bootlegs - The secret history of underground recording industry" (US edition) by Clinton Heylin. The book is deleted but can be found on second hand shops via the internet on

What's wrong with buying Cdrs bootlegs ?

We have nothing against, neither bootlegs nor bootleggers, as far as we are talking about "normal" silver CDs. Bootleggers are taking risks to have these Cds made and offer a precious product to many music fans. Paying the usual 20usd for a 1CD release or 35usd for a 2CD release is just market prices.

But those people on Ebay are only taking advantage of fan ignorance to sell CDrs at the price of silver CDs. This is just not fair.

How to make the difference between CDr and CD ?

We are talking here about, on one side pressed CD, made by the industry (same as the ones you buy at HMV, Virgin and all the other legal stores); and on the other side, Recordable CD (CDr).

Sometime the difference is hard to spot. Some Cdrs have a silver recording surface (the color doesn't matter in fact) and a label zone that can be printed on high definition printers.

One mark a CDr will never have, it is the central reference of the disk's manufacturer that comes with all pressed CDs, and that no Cdr burner can create (they simply cannot access this not burnable zone).

Quite all pressed CD come with this factory mark (even bootleg CDs).

And what is the difference between pressed

Silver Recordable CD
Genuine pressed CD

After all, what is the difference between a CD and a CDr ? The same as the one between an original and a copy. But if you feel like paying dozen of usd for the CDrs we're in a free world, just do.

"How Can I get these releases" do you ask ?

There are many communities devoted to music trading over the net. You should start searching over the Yahoo ! groups at : [ ] with keywords such as "live" ; "trading" ; "weeds" ; "tree" ; "bootlegs" ...

(You'll need a Yahoo Id to enter most of the groups which is free and easy to create).

On these communities, you'll be able to join both "weeds" and "trees". They are open to newbies, as far as they have a CDr burner and respect some rules (such as not selling the recordings on Ebay and affiliates ;-)
There are tons of recordings in circulation and you should be able to start in some weeks an important collection of live recordings for just the price of some blanks and postage.

Here is a list (not complete) of some valuable Yahoo communities you could try to join :

Have you seen some nice item on Ebay or other on-line auction site ?

[ As a side note a preliminary note : I have no particular grief against Ebay. This is a well respected place to get rare stuf for collectors. This note is against people using this tool to take advantage of fans ignorance and passion to sell at incredible prices things that were made free by fans and for fans ]

Is the seller telling that "you will not get CDrs, but silver Cds" ? ... There is quite no chance for you to get real "normal" factory made CDs. Most of the recent releases are CDrs, and have never been pressed, there is quite no more factory made silver Cds floating around (except for old releases).

[ bootleggers too have CDr burners, and when they have a good source, they don't take any risk with customs anymore. They can burn as many copies as they need, for each record fair. No stocks, no taxes, no custom looking for the goods, no more technical rights to pay ... ]

What are the first tips before bidding on an item on Ebay ?

Are you already bidding on Ebay and would like to retract ?

If you decided not to buy the item, you can retract your bid (if the auction is not already closed). Go to the item description on Ebay, click on the "bidding history" link and click on the "Bid Retraction and Cancellation" link and retract your bid for the following reason : "This item is a bootleg CDr and is against Ebay rules".

If you are already the winner of the auction, you can still refuse to send money upon the same reason. Ebay cannot act against you as the item should not be listed there. If the seller sends you negative feedback you can answer his feedback by the previous sentence : "This item is a bootleg CDrs and is against Ebay rules".

Have you already been paying the seller ?

Wait for the item to arrive (check out he has sent CDrs and not "normal" silver CDs), then send negative feedback to the seller with the same sentence : "This item is a bootleg CDrs and is against Ebay rules". You will prevent other fans to pay for the music.

Some have requested and received a refund. Usually the following message is working quite well on this purpose :
"I want to inform you it's a federal crime to sell misrepresented items over the internet, over the state line, and i will be seeking a refund through ebay services. This is a textbook case of fraud and your business will be monitored by FBI computer programs for tax evasion/fraud at the least, if there is no compliance".

Again, this site is only informative. And we do not force you to act this way. You may feel the seller lied to you and may look for a refund. If you do so, act responsible on your own will. You may, or may not, use this information, which is given "as is".

What are "b&p" ; "weeds" ; "trees" ; "EAC" & "Shorten" ?

"B&P" stands for "blanks and postage". For a complete detailed explaination on this trading method, please visit [ ]

a WEED is an "unmanaged" distribution process. Someone offers any copies of a release on a specific board FOR FREE and send it to the first takers (first arrived first served). These takers in return agree to burn three free copies offered back on the same board. (free means free : no conterpart for blanks and/or postage). The number of free copies to distribute in return is set by the original offerer. It is usually 3 copies for double Cd releases and five copies for single CD releases. [ In this case you can add a note to your personnal offer such as "us residents prefered" or "european residents prefered" ... ]

a TREE is a "managed" distribution process. Someone offers a release on a specific board and make a request for "branches" and "leaves". Branches will burn copies to leaves. Their is a structure posted to the board and everyone is to set a trade (either for other releases or for blanks and postage) separately at each point.


You will also need to understand what is SHORTEN and EAC ...

SHORTEN : it is a lossless 2:1 audio compression system. Shorten has two important features which makes it a must for trading audio cds. It generates a checksum code to verify the datas received are identical to the original, and as a data storage mode, it prevents from glitches, pops, jumps and other tricks when copying audio CDs ... The best software to manage shorten files (windows only) is MKW Audio Compression Tool

EAC : Exact Audio Copy home page
This freeware (PC Windows supported only) assures you that the copies of audio CDs you make on your hard drive are errors free. You MUST use this software or a similar software for a good trading. Never do "on the fly copies" (from cd to cd). Alway use EAC to make .Wav files onto your HDD and make your copies from these .wav files.

Of course similar tools are available for various OS, but I don't know them. Ask the communities for more details

The CDrs FAQ : The CDrs FAQ
Once you'll have read this (many translations are available),
you'll have a good knowledge about CDrs, burners and troubles ;-)

Please, do not request direct trades